A couple weeks ago, my friend was in town visiting and we took LG out for cosmopolitans and lunch. LG was well-behaved, as she typically is when we go out in public, thanks in large part to the rigid schedule we keep her on prior to outings, so as to ensure optimum good baby behavior (eat, burp, change, and go! Quick! While she’s still sleeping!)
While we were at lunch, my friend asked what I’d do if LG wasn’t acting so well-behaved. Would I leave the restaurant?
Well. I don’t know.
There are a lot of factors I’d have to take into consideration: What kind of behavior is LG exhibiting? Is she just kind of fussy or is she CRYING crying? And, factors that don’t have to do with the baby: What day of the week is it? What time of day? Where are we eating? How many people are in the restaurant? How loud is it?
I wouldn’t let her sit there SCREAMING her fool head off, but I also wouldn’t flee at the first signs of fussiness. (Although I would internally freak out, if we’re being honest.) (And I suppose I have to admit my version of fussiness might be another person’s SCREAMING, so it’s unfortunately totally objective. Or subjective. I never know the difference.)
Her question did get me thinking, though, about peoples’ disdain for babies in public places, say, in restaurants or on airplanes. I know as someone who doesn’t like kids except my own, I have been known to do the whole, “Grrrrrreat, we’re being seated next to the people with the baby,” thing. Of course now that I have a baby myself, my attitude is a little different (I will sit here and enjoy this cocktail, dammit. My money’s green, too. Etc. Etc.) (I also realize, yes, I will have to reassess my stance on kids in restaurants once LG grows and things change.)
Airplanes are a different beast, though, as I don’t think anyone really wants to fly, EVER, and especially not with a baby. The name of the game in air travel is survival — surviving TSA, surviving boarding the plane with douchebags who mill around even though the plane isn’t boarding their section yet, surviving the middle seat, surviving the bathrooms, you get the idea.) I can only imagine doing all that with children is a special kind of hell.
Which is why, when I’m on a plane, I sit down and tune out, not really paying attention to whether or not there’s a baby (unless there’s an annoying kid kicking the back of my seat, in which case, STOP THAT RIGHT NOW.) I have always figured parents don’t WANT to be there, so why add to their stress with glares and side-eyes. (I hope that buys me some good flying-with-a-baby karma in the future.)
A good karma story: One time I was on a Southwest flight and I was in the aisle seat, sharing the row with a woman with a baby, who was in the window seat. The flight attendants told us multiple times that it was going to be a full flight, and yet this woman kept trying to dissuade people from sitting between us. (I get wanting to try for that extra seat, but it was made VERY clear there would be NO extra seats.)
A middle-aged business man came up to sit between us and the woman said, “Okay, but I may need to change a diaper…” to which he responded, laughing, “Oh, I have four kids — I’ve done the diaper thing!”
I really appreciated the guy’s attitude; this woman was clearly on the defense, even though she didn’t need to be, so I imagine it was nice to fly with baby-friendly people. (Although her line about the diaper was this side of ridiculous. Like you’re REALLY going to change a diaper in a cramped airplane seat, puh-leaze.)
Anyway, I guess with all this, I’m wondering what YOUR thoughts are on babies in public places. Whether you have kids or not, do tell! (This will help me gauge the level of hatred from other patrons when I bring LG to Napa next week.)
I am just as neutral on babies in public as I would be to any other person in public. You will only get side eye from me if you are letting the kid run around a restaurant, say, so OTHER people have to “babysit”. Or if you’re bitching at a kid for no reason other than YOU are a bitch. Kids have every right to be anywhere, parents on the other hand …well…I think we all know where I could be going with that….
I think it depends on the situation. I have a 2yo and a 2 month old. We go out all the time. But we choose our timing and our locations wisely. For example last weekend we went to dinner at Red Robin. Not my first choice of restaurants but I knew that if the kids were loud or whatever it’s Red Robin. A solidly family place. However a couple of weeks ago we went to a local bar with excellent fried pickles…. at 3:30 on a Sat afternoon. Not exactly prime bar time where we would be disruptive. The big thing, though, is that my 2yo is very well behaved. So she’s not running around screaming. If she tried that we’d leave. As much for the other patrons as to punish her for unacceptable behavior. So yeah… as long as your kids are well behaved and you’re not taking them somewhere completely inappropriate at a completely inappropriate time I’m all for bringing kids everywhere.
Oh and as far as flying goes… I’ve flown with my 2 yo 3 times now. It’s hell. And obnoxious passengers that think you have no right to be there make it so, SO much worse. Even when your kid is being quiet it’s uncomfortable.
Southwest airlines used to let families with babies board the plane first, regardless of ticket status, a policy I adored for one reason: I could do my fellow passengers a favor and sit right up front huddled together with all the other screaming children. I remember when they changed the policy and I ended up with three “C” tickets, which meant I was pretty much the last person to board the plane. A FULL plane. There weren’t even TWO seats left together, much less three, so I stood at the front the plane, clutching my one-year-old to my hip, trying to manage our bags and still hold my 3-year-old’s hand. I politely asked people to clear out and give me a row. NO ONE MOVED. I was so pissed, I finally plopped my one-year-old (who by now was screaming) into one of the only empty seats I could find, looked the woman in the aisle seat next to her in the face and said, “Good luck with that.”
She quickly found another seat.
Now even when I’m flying without my kids, I go out of my way to sit near other parents. We need all the moral support we can get.
As a mom of a kid, I’m for it (babies in public, that is. Or actually, babies in general, in most cases.) I’ve endured my share of public tantrums and you know what I find works best? If you’re *not* all apologetic or freak outish, but instead remain calm. Because yes, it’s terrible if a kid is having a fit on an airplane or in one of many souvenir shops at DisneyWorld or in a very public area at Epcot or in the middle of Cirque du Soleil’s trapeze act (and these are all PURELY hypotheticals, I have never been through any of that). But! It’s even worse to have a badly behaved parent!
When Ethan started shouting “Let’s get outta here!” at the circus, guess what? We got the hell out. When he spazzed out over a stupid souvenir, I took him to an out of the way corner and stood there calmly, smiling and nodding at passersby, while he freaked his little self the heck out until he was done.
It’s when parents get unnecessarily defensive that everyone else gets that way, too, because the assumption is that other people are being all judgey. I was a store checkout recently and a mom with a toddler literally said, “I just hate when people stare at me,” as her kid was crying clearly out of exhaustion. And nobody was staring! Nobody made any comments! I was kind of offended that she assumed I was a douchebag.
So that’s my advice: Stay calm, leave if you’re at say a wedding or watching acrobats fly high above the ground, and only respond to douchey people when they have proven themselves to be douchey.
Now, I don’t have kids and, while I don’t go around punching babies or anything, I don’t particularly *like* being around most of them. Yes, I’m evil, whatever, I know.
I don’t love loud children in nicer, sit down restaurants. I totally get that everybody wants a night out now and again, but in my mind, there are plenty of places that are fairly kid-friendly that might be better options for a child that’s still learning what’s acceptable in public. That being said, I don’t glare or make comments at someone in a restaurant with a loud child unless there’s something COMPLETELY ridiculous going on. I mean, let’s face it — you can always step out to the car for a bit, can’t you?
Airplanes are a whole different thing. If you’re facing air travel with a baby or small child, you’ve got enough of a challenge on your hands, and you’ve definitely got my sympathy. You’re probably either going to visit someone who doesn’t get to see you and your little one as often as they’d like, or you’re just trying to get home. I’ve actually spoken up to people who’ve gotten huffy at a crying child. I mean, hell, *I* don’t want to be there, so do you really think the child who doesn’t understand why his ears hurt is happy about it? Still, if you have a toddler kicking my seat and don’t bother to let him know that’s not nice and instead just focus on your Kindle, well, I have a special finger just for you.
I think you just have to know your kids. I tend to be hyper aware of the way my kids are acting and I know that there are some places that I just can’t go. As for restaurants, I will take my kids out if they’re screaming or being disruptive, but I also know where we can and can’t go. We don’t go to “family” restaurants all of the time, but I’m also aware that I can’t expect my kids to sit through a multi-course meal.
As for air travel, well we’ve all got to get somewhere. I mean, my kids were remarkably good on our flights to Hawaii, and I’m pretty sure the only person they were annoying was me. That said, it could have gone an entirely different way, and while I’m aware that it’s no fun to ride with a screaming child, it’s not like I chose flying over some other child friendly way to travel.
All of that said, I think a newborn is an exception to most “can I take my baby here” rules. I mean, they sleep a lot, they can’t grab things or break things or throw things on the floor and if they’re screaming it’s for a reason, not because they’re being a three year old hellion, you know?
I only glare at the parents who don’t drug their poor kid on a lengthy flight–I mean, the baby’s screaming because his/her poor little ears hurt; don’t you think it’s the parently thing to do to each your own child’s pain (not to mention the pain of all the passengers around you who have to endure the screaming for six hours)?
I always feel like kids screaming on a plane is what the rest of us wish we could be doing too…
I’m fine with kids pretty much anyplace except Las Vegas. I was standing in the taxi line at Caesar’s with Dad and friends and I was telling a story and dropped the fuck word. This RIDICULOUS woman says… Please, not in front of my child… and I said – Hey, I’ll make you a deal… I won’t say Fuck at Disneyland…give me Vegas. I mean sheesh…
That being said, I do check out my surroundings now a little more closely. I don’t want to be that hideous woman who teaches children their first swear word. I will also do my best to make sure my grand-daughter doesn’t hear those words from me. No guarantee’s but I’ll try.
oye, I give side eye when the parents don’t even try to parent their child. Meaning, they let the kid run around or don’t try to soothe the baby. I mean as long as it looks like you are trying to take care of the situation I ain’t mad at ya
I do the same as you . Access the situation, I know my kids and if its something that thowing a cookie at will help, I get a damn cookie. If it’s past bedtime or someone is sick and I know its going to be a downward spiral, we get the F out.
When it comes to flying I just do my best. I’ve flown with both kids alone and was surprised how helpful people were (there were assholes though, OH YES THERE WERE) I was as polite as I could be and just did what I could. If one of the kids were going to loose their shit in the air- then I’d deal with it. There’s not much you can do in a plane and you are damn right I don’t want to be there- we want our kids to STFU just as much as any other passenger and maybe even more.
Thank god for boobs! And cookies!
AND BOOZE!
Definitely for me it depends on the parents and NOT the kid. Look, I have a 5 month old. Sometimes she yells and whines and I can’t stop her. But I will TRY to stop her. I will sing down the Target aisles, dance if she is being held, make funny faces, etc. But parents that attempt to ignore their children? Not my cup of tea. A child (especially a baby) is probably yelling because he if she needs something. The couple a few weeks ago whose child was JUMPING in the booth and SCREAMING in a restaurant while his parents pretended that he wasn’t there and for 30 minutes enjoyed their meal and adult conversation? No. Equally bad to me are the parents that get SO! UPSET! as if a child talking during a meal is going to upset the world. We sat near a family just tonight where the children were fairly well-behaved, not too loud, not screaming or crying, not demanding, etc. But the parents were disturbing, telling their children how awful they were, telling them to shut up, smacking them openly, taking them to the bathroom for spanking and being very aggressively out of hand. Again, NO! The parents bothered me in both situations. Of course a child won’t be perfect, but the first child was obviously not responding well to being ignored. I would have gotten to-go boxes, paid the check and left. The second family was just frustrating because the parents were overreacting so much that the children weren’t being allowed to be children. I get embarrassed when Eriana is fussy, but I try what I can to calm the situation and realize that most people understand that she is a KID!
We have always paid for our kids to have their OWN seats on long flights. Once, on a full flight, some busybody woman stops & leans over to scold me “your child has no business taking up a whole seat!” I calmly showed her both our boarding passes. Stupid bitch.
My point is, people come in w/ preconceived notions or assumptions about you & your kids that have nothing to do w/ you. Don’t take it personally. Not all people are tools about kids. You just never know.
I don’t mind babies anywhere, but I’m a mom so I guess I’m biased. More often I’m bothered by parents who are assholes, whether by having them out at inappropriate times/venues (i.e. crowded bar at 11pm – I’ve seen it – or in theaters clearly past bedtime) or by ignoring them when they need help or by being total jerks who are mean to their kids.
That was a really long sentence to agree with you – when my kid freaks, I do the same but mostly inside my head while I’m trying to figure out if I can salvage the situation.
@Camels & Cholcolate-
It’s not safe to give very small children decongestants. They’re supposed to be 4 before you use them. Just an FYI, if it helps you understand why drugs aren’t employed more often by parents to help with things like ear pain.
I love this post and I have stories that may or may not amuse you.
1. One flight I was on, a frazzled looking woman came on late with her young child in her arms. And she made a loud announcement to everyone within earshot that she hadn’t had a nap and so she might fall asleep but it was anyone’s guess and she did it in such a sweet self-deprecating way that we all laughed. And the baby was totally fine – but if she hadn’t been? We’d all been warned and charmed by the mom so it wouldn’t have mattered.
2. I got seated in front of a child who kicked my seat. I first asked him to stop. Then then I asked him more firmly. Then I asked his mother to ask him to stop. And she looked me dead in the eyes and said, “How would you like me to make him stop?” Like it wasn’t her problem. The kid kicked my seat the rest of the flight as I fumed.
3. I have seen people change a diaper on the seat. And I don’t want to go into an airplane bathroom anymore than the next person… But is that OKAY? To change a baby’s DIAPER on a seat that other people have to sit on?
we gave chocolate and ear plugs to the people around us when we flew back from hawaii on a red-eye flight when micah was 1 year old. he screamed for the first 5 minutes – and i mean screamed – but then passed out for the next 7 hours. thank god!
we have been “those” people who have changed a dirty diaper in the extra seat and heck, we’ve even had to do it on our laps because the some of the damn planes don’t actually have a baby changing table! and damned if i’m going to put them on the floor of the bathroom – disgusting!! so the people around us just had to suck it up while we changed a stinky diaper.
We’ve flown with Truman many times and only once has he been the screaming child on the flight. We weren’t expecting that and we did everything we could to calm him down but we couldn’t make a bottle of Benadryl appear from thin air so crying it was. Luckily it was a flight to Orlando so I don’t think many people were bothered. But knowing my child, I wouldn’t have given him the Benadryl even if I had it. By the time it would have started working we would have landed and then I would have had to deal with a drugged toddler while gathering luggage and navigating a rental car. Not an ideal situation either.
As far as dining out with him, we also try to pick off times to go and mostly only family friendly places. We did take him to a slightly more formal place this past weekend but we packed crayons for him in my purse and he was fine the whole time. You learn your kid’s limits and work within them.
Also, I’m no Southwest fan but I flew with them in Feb and their most recent policy regarding families is that you board between groups A & B when there are plenty of rows left.